August 30, 2007

[wages]

Conspiracy or Truth?

Last night I watched Zeitgeist (free at http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/). Very scary shit, but I believe it. Highlights:
*Jesus was completely fabricated in order to control the masses (LOTS of support of this view is presented and it is very compelling)
*Jesus and a BUNCH of other "prophets" all have the same basic characteristics (holy birth, the # 12, died and resurrected 3 days later, etc, etc, etc) that seem to be based off of Horus (the Egyptian sun god)
*The Federal Reserve System (the private company that prints our $$) is ripping us a new one and 99% of us don't even realize it (I didn't until last night, ug!)
*I had heard this before, but the Income Tax was never ratified, so we don't really have to pay it. So, does anyone know how to legally not have to pay it?
*The stock market crashes of the 20s were fabricated by the rich elites
*WW1, WW2, Iraq, 9/11, Vietnam, etc etc etc were all created for the purpose of making money
*There is NO true enemy of the state except the heads of the state itself!

Furthermore, we ALL know that the government is dumbing us down through the school system. While my dad graduated valedictorian of his school, attended John Hopkins University, worked on the cure for AIDS, discovered a previously unknown hepatitis virus, and so on and so forth, I have a 165 IQ (whatever that means) but I barely got my general studies AA degree, have less than 1/10th the ambition as my dad, and my goal in life is to own a bar. I think if my education were better, I may have had the desire to be much more than a bar owner (like be a politician to change all this shit which has always been a "dream" of mine), but as it is, I will be extremely happy if I turn that "bar" goal into a reality.

So, anyways, do I believe in my government? nope. Am I so pretentious to believe in the American Way/Dream/Scheme (though I feel compelled to pursue it nonetheless)? nope. Am I going to run for president and change it all? Let's see, I'm 27, so around 2016 I could run (I think). Maybe if I start my campaign now on YouTube and SF, I will have built up enough of a following to either win and be assassinated or just be assassinated. Hmmm, I love how our system works!

In other news, um, there's nothing much going on here in Wagesville.

[erik]

*Jesus and a BUNCH of other "prophets" all have the same basic characteristics (holy birth, the # 12, died and resurrected 3 days later, etc, etc, etc) that seem to be based off of Horus (the Egyptian sun god)

Do they cite where they got this information from? I'm interested in this, but not if it originates from someone who made it up.

[jimtyrrell]

Working today. Tonight I'm hosting the last open mic of the season at Waterville Valley's town square.

QotD: There's a standoff of sorts going on right now with a family in NH who refuse to pay Income Tax. They've been holed up in their compound for quite a while now. I don't think they have solid legal ground to stand on, personally. More importantly, it'd be good if nobody got hurt.

[jack]

"live free or die" right jim?

[Niveous]

*Jesus and a BUNCH of other "prophets" all have the same basic characteristics (holy birth, the # 12, died and resurrected 3 days later, etc, etc, etc) that seem to be based off of Horus (the Egyptian sun god)

Do they cite where they got this information from? I'm interested in this, but not if it originates from someone who made it up.

Well, I don't know where they got their information but in my study of creation myths, I've seen there are very clear correlations between the myths of several cultures. For example, the Flood myth. Most people equate it with Noah. But there are flood myths in several other cultures mythos such as the Sumerians (Utnapishtim). So I would not be surprised to hear that there's a correlation between Jesus and many other notable religious names.

A quick google search and I came up with this list of similiarities between Jesus and Horus. It's an interesting read.

[roymond]

*Jesus and a BUNCH of other "prophets" all have the same basic characteristics (holy birth, the # 12, died and resurrected 3 days later, etc, etc, etc) that seem to be based off of Horus (the Egyptian sun god)

Do they cite where they got this information from? I'm interested in this, but not if it originates from someone who made it up.

Define "made it up" in this context. I'm also interested from a social-historical point of view. The world of true "facts" related to spiritual transformations as related in the bible isn't something I particularly lose sleep over, however.

[EmbersOfAutumn]

Well, I don't know where they got their information but in my study of creation myths, I've seen there are very clear correlations between the myths of several cultures. For example, the Flood myth. Most people equate it with Noah. But there are flood myths in several other cultures mythos such as the Sumerians (Utnapishtim). So I would not be surprised to hear that there's a correlation between Jesus and many other notable religious names.

I read a book once that was pretty interesting along these lines. It compared the accounts in the Bible with the teachings and backgrounds of many other belief systems. One particular chapter counted how many different cultures had similar historical accounts in relation to the Bible. It mentioned over 200 cultures actually had accounts that dictated how God or the Gods brought a Deluge or similar weather phenomenon that wiped out most of humanity, saving just a handful of faithful servants. Other similarities involved the destruction of cities by hailstones or like phenomenon (Sodom and Gomorrah) as well as the origination of all other languages (Tower of Babel)

[Caravan Ray]

*Jesus and a BUNCH of other "prophets" all have the same basic characteristics (holy birth, the # 12, died and resurrected 3 days later, etc, etc, etc) that seem to be based off of Horus (the Egyptian sun god)

Do they cite where they got this information from? I'm interested in this, but not if it originates from someone who made it up.

Well, I don't know where they got their information but in my study of creation myths, I've seen there are very clear correlations between the myths of several cultures. For example, the Flood myth. Most people equate it with Noah. But there are flood myths in several other cultures mythos such as the Sumerians (Utnapishtim). So I would not be surprised to hear that there's a correlation between Jesus and many other notable religious names.

A Noah-like deluge was also in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh which predates the Old Testament. Given that the creation of the first permanent human settlements around 8000 BC also roughly coincided with the tail end of the last ice-age and the coincedent sea-leve rise, the existence of oral traditions of extraordinary innundations are not surprising.

I read Lamb by Christopher Moore recently, which I really loved. It is supposedly the Gospel of Jesus' best mate Biff - whom he travelled with between the ages of 12 and 33.

It is a comic novel - but it suggests that Jesus spent those 'forgotten years' travelling and learning about Buddhism and Hinduism. I have read a lot to suggest that the New Testament does actually contain traces of Eastern philosophies that do not exist in Hebrew tradition. But as I said, it is a comic novel and quite funny (and after reading others by him - Christopher Moore is now my favourite novelist at the moment) - but it also has a lot of interestiing ideas in it

[jimtyrrell]

"live free or die" right jim?

To some people, those indeed seem to be the only two choices. General John Stark was a spirited fellow, I'll give him that.



As impossible as it may be to go 'off topic' in a thread like this one, join me for this bit at your own discretion:

Once when I was 21 or so, my friend Jay Murphy asked me to go out to Spokane with him. Jay had hit a kid named Mike Ward in the head with a rock way back in first grade. Mike moved away, and years later, Jay discovered that Mike had enrolled at Gonzaga. So he decided a cross-country trip to apologize was in order. I had nothing going on (as usual), so I agreed to come along. How could I miss this??
We caught a ride with a friend who was headed to California. Five days across, and we end up at his front door. Jay explains his story to Mike's roommate, who tells us to go up to his room. Mike is still asleep when Jay walks in. Mike wakes, looks at him, and says "Jay Murphy?"
Jay says, "I hit you in the head with a rock. I'm sorry," and walks downstairs.
We stayed for about a month, playing volleyball and drinking kegs of Hamm's beer with the guys at the house. Then we came home poor and exhausted and sunburnt.

The point of this story: I am prone to taking senseless cross-country trips. So one of these days, Jack, I'm coming for that two-dollar bottle of wine.

[Ross]

Do they cite where they got this information from? I'm interested in this, but not if it originates from someone who made it up.

Well, I don't know where they got their information but in my study of creation myths, I've seen there are very clear correlations between the myths of several cultures. For example, the Flood myth. Most people equate it with Noah. But there are flood myths in several other cultures mythos such as the Sumerians (Utnapishtim). So I would not be surprised to hear that there's a correlation between Jesus and many other notable religious names.

A Noah-like deluge was also in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh which predates the Old Testament. Given that the creation of the first permanent human settlements around 8000 BC also roughly coincided with the tail end of the last ice-age and the coincedent sea-leve rise, the existence of oral traditions of extraordinary innundations are not surprising.

I read Lamb by Christopher Moore recently, which I really loved. It is supposedly the Gospel of Jesus' best mate Biff - whom he travelled with between the ages of 12 and 33.

It is a comic novel - but it suggests that Jesus spent those 'forgotten years' travelling and learning about Buddhism and Hinduism. I have read a lot to suggest that the New Testament does actually contain traces of Eastern philosophies that do not exist in Hebrew tradition. But as I said, it is a comic novel and quite funny (and after reading others by him - Christopher Moore is now my favourite novelist at the moment) - but it also has a lot of interestiing ideas in it

A book I read called "the book of Q" about ttrying to reconstruct a text that may have been a source for three of the gospels that share much in common, spends a fair amount of time describiig the culture of the area of the Sea of Galilee at the Time Jesus would have lived there. Apparently it would have been at the border of Jewish and Greek cultural areas, probably more heavily greek, and that much of Jesus' philosophy as represented by quotes in the gospels is drawn from greek philosophy and not a rethinking of Jewish tradition.

[wages]

*Jesus and a BUNCH of other "prophets" all have the same basic characteristics (holy birth, the # 12, died and resurrected 3 days later, etc, etc, etc) that seem to be based off of Horus (the Egyptian sun god)

Do they cite where they got this information from? I'm interested in this, but not if it originates from someone who made it up.

It was a documentary, so they cited about as much as Michael Moore would. However, the website (as provided above) may have details on where they got their info. They were comparing pretty much every single historical holy man (Jesus, Horus, and a bunch of others I can't recall at the moment). This part of the documentary is covered in the first 20 minutes or so, and they stream it from their website, so it's easy to check out for yourself.

Oh, and I definitely agree with your point!

[wages]

Well, I don't know where they got their information but in my study of creation myths, I've seen there are very clear correlations between the myths of several cultures. For example, the Flood myth. Most people equate it with Noah. But there are flood myths in several other cultures mythos such as the Sumerians (Utnapishtim). So I would not be surprised to hear that there's a correlation between Jesus and many other notable religious names.

A Noah-like deluge was also in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh which predates the Old Testament. Given that the creation of the first permanent human settlements around 8000 BC also roughly coincided with the tail end of the last ice-age and the coincedent sea-leve rise, the existence of oral traditions of extraordinary innundations are not surprising.

I read Lamb by Christopher Moore recently, which I really loved. It is supposedly the Gospel of Jesus' best mate Biff - whom he travelled with between the ages of 12 and 33.

It is a comic novel - but it suggests that Jesus spent those 'forgotten years' travelling and learning about Buddhism and Hinduism. I have read a lot to suggest that the New Testament does actually contain traces of Eastern philosophies that do not exist in Hebrew tradition. But as I said, it is a comic novel and quite funny (and after reading others by him - Christopher Moore is now my favourite novelist at the moment) - but it also has a lot of interestiing ideas in it

A book I read called "the book of Q" about ttrying to reconstruct a text that may have been a source for three of the gospels that share much in common, spends a fair amount of time describiig the culture of the area of the Sea of Galilee at the Time Jesus would have lived there. Apparently it would have been at the border of Jewish and Greek cultural areas, probably more heavily greek, and that much of Jesus' philosophy as represented by quotes in the gospels is drawn from greek philosophy and not a rethinking of Jewish tradition.

Yup, they pretty much covered all of that in the film (except the humor novelist bit). One of the most intriguing parts is that the life of Jesus (who I like to call Hey Zeus) mirrors that of figures from over 200 cultures (as you say).

They were also saying that Jesus may have been completely invented by the Romans in order gain social control (the similarities between Greek mythology and the Bible are stark when they are pointed out). Plus, check this out, the symbol for Jesus is a fish...and they are saying that Jesus began the Age of Pisces (the fish). Did he really feed the multitude with fish, or is that simply a fairy tale about the Age of Pisces? I don't know, but it's so friggin' cool!

EDIT: actually, if it is true, it's so friggin' sad because that would mean the last 2000 years was all a farce...oh, and people really are just glorified cattle.

[roymond]

It was a documentary, so they cited about as much as Michael Moore would.

Not sure what you mean here, and I try to balance his message with my own ignorance, but I encourage you to visit his "Facts About the Films" pages where he does cite tons of sources on the major points of all his films, from the Christian Science Monitor. the Washington Post, CBS, Fox, NYTimes, PBS, Center For Disease Control, the US Gov, various universities, etc.

[erik]

A quick google search and I came up with this list of similiarities between Jesus and Horus. It's an interesting read.

Yeah, I can find that list all over the internet, it's just that it doesn't seem to be backed up by anyone who actually studies people who lived in Egypt 5000 years ago.

[jack]

"live free or die" right jim?

To some people, those indeed seem to be the only two choices. General John Stark was a spirited fellow, I'll give him that.



As impossible as it may be to go 'off topic' in a thread like this one, join me for this bit at your own discretion:

Once when I was 21 or so, my friend Jay Murphy asked me to go out to Spokane with him. Jay had hit a kid named Mike Ward in the head with a rock way back in first grade. Mike moved away, and years later, Jay discovered that Mike had enrolled at Gonzaga. So he decided a cross-country trip to apologize was in order. I had nothing going on (as usual), so I agreed to come along. How could I miss this??
We caught a ride with a friend who was headed to California. Five days across, and we end up at his front door. Jay explains his story to Mike's roommate, who tells us to go up to his room. Mike is still asleep when Jay walks in. Mike wakes, looks at him, and says "Jay Murphy?"
Jay says, "I hit you in the head with a rock. I'm sorry," and walks downstairs.
We stayed for about a month, playing volleyball and drinking kegs of Hamm's beer with the guys at the house. Then we came home poor and exhausted and sunburnt.

The point of this story: I am prone to taking senseless cross-country trips. So one of these days, Jack, I'm coming for that two-dollar bottle of wine.

haha.....if i don't show up on your doorstep first.

where you live (the lakes region) is one of my favorite places in the entire world, having spent nearly every summer there as a kid at my aunt's cabins on lake winnisquam.

and i spent enormous amounts of my childhood playing in stark park. my grandmother lived right down the street from it.

that 2 buck chuck has your name on it!

[Caravan Ray]

Well, I don't know where they got their information but in my study of creation myths, I've seen there are very clear correlations between the myths of several cultures. For example, the Flood myth. Most people equate it with Noah. But there are flood myths in several other cultures mythos such as the Sumerians (Utnapishtim). So I would not be surprised to hear that there's a correlation between Jesus and many other notable religious names.

A Noah-like deluge was also in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh which predates the Old Testament. Given that the creation of the first permanent human settlements around 8000 BC also roughly coincided with the tail end of the last ice-age and the coincedent sea-leve rise, the existence of oral traditions of extraordinary innundations are not surprising.

I read Lamb by Christopher Moore recently, which I really loved. It is supposedly the Gospel of Jesus' best mate Biff - whom he travelled with between the ages of 12 and 33.

It is a comic novel - but it suggests that Jesus spent those 'forgotten years' travelling and learning about Buddhism and Hinduism. I have read a lot to suggest that the New Testament does actually contain traces of Eastern philosophies that do not exist in Hebrew tradition. But as I said, it is a comic novel and quite funny (and after reading others by him - Christopher Moore is now my favourite novelist at the moment) - but it also has a lot of interestiing ideas in it

A book I read called "the book of Q" about ttrying to reconstruct a text that may have been a source for three of the gospels that share much in common, spends a fair amount of time describiig the culture of the area of the Sea of Galilee at the Time Jesus would have lived there. Apparently it would have been at the border of Jewish and Greek cultural areas, probably more heavily greek, and that much of Jesus' philosophy as represented by quotes in the gospels is drawn from greek philosophy and not a rethinking of Jewish tradition.

That makes sense. And since the army of Alexander travelled all the way to SE Asia and the Greeks had had a lot of contact with the Persians over the years - that can explain the cross-mixing of ideas. Probably better than the idea of Jesus wandering around like a Swedish backpacker for 20 years.

[Bjam]

I got my braces off today! This is super exciting news. Do you see how beautiful my teeth are? They're super beautiful. I celebrated my eating corn on the cob.

QOTD: It's all a little of Column A and a little of Column B.

[blue]

Furthermore, we ALL know that the government is dumbing us down through the school system.

that's just plain stupid.

[blue]

I got my braces off today! This is super exciting news. Do you see how beautiful my teeth are? They're super beautiful. I celebrated my eating corn on the cob.

QOTD: It's all a little of Column A and a little of Column B.

congrats

[Justincombustion]

EDIT: actually, if it is true, it's so friggin' sad because that would mean the last 2000 years was all a farce...oh, and people really are just glorified cattle.

What's easier to believe:
A) People are trying to find ways to stay in power and will do anything to keep that power?
or
B) there is an imaginary guy in the sky, who nobody has ever seen, heard of and appearantly wants nothing to do with US, but hey, He loves us!!! Send your money!!!

[wages]

It was a documentary, so they cited about as much as Michael Moore would.

Not sure what you mean here, and I try to balance his message with my own ignorance, but I encourage you to visit his "Facts About the Films" pages where he does cite tons of sources on the major points of all his films, from the Christian Science Monitor. the Washington Post, CBS, Fox, NYTimes, PBS, Center For Disease Control, the US Gov, various universities, etc.

I meant within the film itself. I assumed he cited his facts somewhere, and I know he's written a lot of books. Sadly, the most reading I do is 50% online, 49% at work, and only 1% elsewhere. But documentaries... oh buddy, I watch a lot!

[roymond]

I meant within the film itself. I assumed he cited his facts somewhere, and I know he's written a lot of books. Sadly, the most reading I do is 50% online, 49% at work, and only 1% elsewhere. But documentaries... oh buddy, I watch a lot!

You mean, like, someone in the corner of the screen citing each statement in sign language or something?