Songfight! Documentary!

[tonetripper]

So I don't know if any of you cats know what I do, but I thought I'd fill you all in on what I do for a living. I work as a sound recordist on documentaries, film, reality tv (sucks) and commercials. Recently I bought myself a pretty expensive sound package for documentary (broadcast quality - think National Geographic) and have been working more and more in this capacity. While I have been doing sound as a freelancer for a while now a vision popped in my head about something that would perhaps interest or not interest everyone in this community.

I have worked on enough bad projects that it has made me wonder about the state of the world we live in and what people find interesting. Especially when pertaining to the barrage of documentaries cum reality shows that seem to pop up like new diseases for the voyeurs in all of us on television. From here is where the idea came about.

How about doing a documentary on Songfight! and some of the offshoots of communities in other areas of the net such as Filmfight!, Remixfight!, Somesongs etc. The focus would be on Songfighters and there would be specific people that I think it would focus on. The premise would be to follow some of these fighters around in their day to day activities, as I know not all of you are working full-time as musicians or the music or sound business on the whole, to get an idea of how different they are from their SF personas, to get an idea of their views on the Net, and what Songfight! has done for them. Also asking about other SFers who they have met and some of the stories that surrounded them when they finally encountered them. I'm sure all of us would have something to say about certain debacles that have occurred by being a part of such a strong community. There are a ton of questions that would pertain to the end result which would be an SF live somewhere, maybe in Canada (CanCon for funding and also since I don't think there has been one yet) in perhaps Toronto. I could easily arrange such a thing.

The end result of the project would be to understand better the concept of the net and how it has grown into such a developmental thing for artists and how big business is scrambling to keep up with the youth that seems to be bombarding the world. Also would be to film an SF live where fighters may meet for the first time to see how those relationships have grown.

The beauty of this project is that the exposure to the artists and the site would bring about some sort of revolution. Some of you may think this may be detrimental to the concept in which case I have created this thread for you and others who may disagree with you on that. Either/or I would love some feedback on this. I may not have a lot of time to answer, but I am more than willing to open the can of worms for debate. My roll would be to produce it along with the moderator's permission and input into the end result of such a fascinating concept that has added to my life in so many ways in the last year. Also if there are editors and people who shoot cameras for a living or not I would want to extend them to be a part of the project. The financial gains would only be established by getting funding and once completed (approved by the community at large) a lump sum, once sold, which I would probably take for some of my time inputted, but the bulk would be given back to the moderators to keep the site alive and keep the internet vibe of free artistic wealth. I am forever impressed by all of you for your passion in this concept and would love, LOVE to get some feedback. I give it over to you.

- Pablo

P.S. if it's another really good bad idea state it. My skin is thick. Peace.

[j$]

Intruiging. I think if you kept the concept broad it could be a really good document of 'the natural successor to the DIY Punk Ethic'. There would be a lot of interest I believe, if only because so many people still don't realise the upload flipside of the music download revolution takes place.

You could include Filmfight, maybe that Write a Book in November thing, Songfight, Remixfight, the various failed attempts at it like Sharing Machine - Frontalot and Kompressor and all those other people who can shift 1,000 of units.

It would, if successful, be detrimental to Songfight as is. But Songfight would change, or die and something would take its place, I guess.

And one thing we appear to be good at is self-documentation, after all.

j$

[erik]

Is this to be like a vanity published book, or something that will be pushed into theaters/festivals/whatnot? I don't think that the subject matter has a wide enough appeal to sustain a movie that people in the general population would be interested in seeing.

[jack]

i personally think it's an awesome idea for a documentary. the material is ripe for it. think clerks meets spinal tap. definitely needs some sort of narrator.

i've actually kicked around pretty much the same idea. ken and i originally discussed renting an RV and driving to last years songfight live in austin, and i wanted to do something exactly like what you talked about, interviewing people, showing their story, mix in some live footage of the show, etc.

i'd say to pull something like this off on a professional level, it would require alot of planning and maybe some pre-production stuff like having people submit video in advance. obviously the editing (both video and sound) would require alot of time too. but coming from someone who does corporate marketing for a living, i'd say the upside is that it would have HUGE potential interest from the public.

everytime i ever talk about songfight with anyone outside the loop, the first thing i always mention is how i record music with people i've never met on a regular basis. when people hear the stuff i've collaborated on with other songfighters, they are blown away by the idea of online collaborations, and the sense of community.

like i said, i think it's ripe for the picking. remember me in your oscar speech....

[Phil. Redmon.]

I think this would be an awesome idea, but:

I would hope that the project would recieve enough financial backing to send a two or three man team to the various SongFight hotspots, for a couple reasons.

1. consistancy of A/V.

2. less contrivity (note: not a word.)

People creating their oown footage is a bad idea, for both of the above reasons.

SongFight: The Movie gives me a chub.

Don't forget to put people who don't like each other in a room and point a camera at it.

[roymond]

The part that intrigues me is a story about the independent music scene and how it doesn't need the establishment. There is a need to project P2P and music downloading as absolutely legal and legit mechanisms. Many people don't have this understanding because 1) they are not involved with independent media, and 2) all they hear about are the headlines and hype generated from the industry about illegal downloads/sharing. I am working on an audio popcast of the making of a songfight (Cheer Up Shelley) right now, fyi.

[jack]

I think this would be an awesome idea, but:

I would hope that the project would recieve enough financial backing to send a two or three man team to the various SongFight hotspots, for a couple reasons.

1. consistancy of A/V.

2. less contrivity (note: not a word.)

People creating their oown footage is a bad idea, for both of the above reasons.

SongFight: The Movie gives me a chub.

Don't forget to put people who don't like each other in a room and point a camera at it.

the idea of people creating their own footage i think could work if it was used in conjunction with the master tape. i'm guessing it would all be worked on digitally at some point, in Premiere or Avid or something that could drop the original artist-submitted video in and effect it.

but yeah. the idea gives me a chub too.

[thehipcola]

Awesome idea TT. It is a story that bears telling, and I agree with SuperShite that people would totally dig it. Music and the internet is a hot topic now and arguably for some time to come. I think it would have strong appeal to the public.

Phil's ideas for consistent a/v are good. So funding will be a pretty big factor. I worry, though, that you might have a difficult time finding two people who don't like each other around here.....



Of course, I'd LOVE to work on this project in whatever capacity serves it best...

Cool.

[erik]

i personally think it's an awesome idea for a documentary. the material is ripe for it. think clerks meets spinal tap. definitely needs some sort of narrator.

Both of those movies had lots and lots of plot. What would happen in a songfight documentary to keep the flow of the movie at an interesting pace?

[jack]

i personally think it's an awesome idea for a documentary. the material is ripe for it. think clerks meets spinal tap. definitely needs some sort of narrator.

Both of those movies had lots and lots of plot. What would happen in a songfight documentary to keep the flow of the movie at an interesting pace?

well, my original idea was to follow 2 guys (me and ken) on a roadtrip as we trekked across country driving to austin in an RV and meeting people like yourself, getting their story, have some footage of people interacting, clips from the show, interviews about planning event and history, blah blah. you guys are a funny and entertaining lot. i have no doubt i could get some good anecdotes. or i could just do a half hour of marcus kellis.

people like stories about quirky things. songfight live is definitely quirky.

[Phil. Redmon.]

I worry, though, that you might have a difficult time finding two people who don't like each other around here.....

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

[Henrietta]

What would happen in a songfight documentary to keep the flow of the movie at an interesting pace?

One great flick is "American Movie".... the only plot there is: guy who wants to make movie makes movie.

It all depends on what you do with it, really. I think Songfight has the cast of characters enough. It'll turn out awesome if you can take a bunch of footage and extract a great story. Bringing a totally human and personal face to the internet sort of thing.

Neat idea, TT!

[erik]

What would happen in a songfight documentary to keep the flow of the movie at an interesting pace?

One great flick is "American Movie".... the only plot there is: guy who wants to make movie makes movie.

There a so many things involved with the actual process of making a movie that lead to so many great scenes and shots in that film. Making a film is not a subject for which there will be a lack of shots or storylines to make an entire documentary from.

[jb]

this would be both easy and hard. simple in concept but taking a lot of work to bring together.

basically everybody could just use their own camcorder, or borrow one, sit in front of it, and answer a bunch of standard questions, or questions targeted to them. then they send the tape to tonetripper, who edits it into a documentary.

then he gets some of malachi's concert footage, then he shows up to sfl live 2005 and takes more footage and does a bunch of live interviews, and does a bunch of candid footage of us hanging out n' shit.

there are your two threads for the film-- histories and backgrounds, and then documenting a songfight live.

it's not like there's a drought of interesting people around here.

[jack]

check out jim jarmusch's "year of the horse" for a good model for something like this.

* or better yet, check out "dogtown and z boys" by stacey peralta. narrated by sean penn. great documentary.

[Hoblit]

wait a year

then do it.

[tonetripper]

this would be both easy and hard. simple in concept but taking a lot of work to bring together.

basically everybody could just use their own camcorder, or borrow one, sit in front of it, and answer a bunch of standard questions, or questions targeted to them. then they send the tape to tonetripper, who edits it into a documentary.

then he gets some of malachi's concert footage, then he shows up to sfl live 2005 and takes more footage and does a bunch of live interviews, and does a bunch of candid footage of us hanging out n' shit.

there are your two threads for the film-- histories and backgrounds, and then documenting a songfight live.

it's not like there's a drought of interesting people around here.

Exactly JB. I think the thing that people forget about creating documentaries, much in the same way as creating songs for a record is that you are gonna have to sift through uninteresting crap to get to the meat on the bone. And I disagree with 1516 about people finding it interesting. I think the deal is that it would take a lot of time and lots and lots of footage. The ratio would be somewhere atleast in the neighbourhood of 60 to 1, maybe more. I think the interest is more in the advent of the internet and how it affects artists such as in SF. The idea that you can gain international fame, not that I'm sure that anyone has on SF, but that it's possible and that realistically places like Napster and the pirating going on is altering the face of big business.

The idea is to follow key players. JB for sure. Spud for sure. Blue for SURE. 1516 FOR SURE (if not to follow him around with a TV-B-Gone ). People like MC Frontalot could prolly have his own doc. There are others like Sober and a whole string of others who could be followed. One idea is to get the camcorders out and start making it happen. The only problem with the camcorder idea is the sound. You'd need atleast some kind of boom mic and/or a wire on the interviewee to get the tight sound unless it's incidental. It really is about the sound in keeping thematically with the Doc concept.

Follow around their day to day lives. Follow threads. Talk about it with them and the fighting that goes on in the suck quotient. The big idea is the people and the characters that makes docs interesting and the underlying story is more about the community and how it comes together from all over the world. Maybe an idea of setting up different crews in Pennsilvania, Austin, California, London, Australia etc. would be the way to do it. If everyone gave me footage I could, or someone with better cutting tools could cut it. I would just like to oversee the story line and manifest the concept. I think it's a fascinating concept. One which I think deserves to be heard. Also in keeping with computers, how has the computing world affected the average Joe Musician.... Joe artist.... etc.?

The possibilities are endless and the story with enough good footage will tell the story. The story is the people and the conclusion is in marrying all those ideas. Keep it going. I love the input.

[tonetripper]

wait a year

then do it.

I want to start the conversation now and maybe start in the new year. I want to as well submit something to the Canada Arts Council and find a production company who would be bold enough to tackle it and finance it. The money is to go back to the community and spread it out for things like SF lives, CDs, blah blah blah.

It would take a whole year to do. Start now and by 2006 we could have something to word with. Atleast some kind of development for an SF live where the whole thing closes out.

Narbotic would be an interesting interviewee.

[roymond]

On the suck factor front - there will have to be some truly good songs involved, so no doubt many many hours of footage over many fights to get a couple end-to-end that really work out. Think of how many people Michael Moore must have followed for months to get that one woman who was so pro-war, but then her son gets killed and she goes to the white house and gets harassed by another who thinks she's a plant. I would bet 40...60? Or maybe he was just lucky.

[vanilla ike]

basically everybody could just use their own camcorder, or borrow one, sit in front of it, and answer a bunch of standard questions, or questions targeted to them. then they send the tape to tonetripper, who edits it into a documentary.

it's not like there's a drought of interesting people around here.

Wow! Right on man.....this idea rocks! I've many similar ideas and would love to assist in any way possible....you may or may not know that i collab with WreckdoM on a regular basis....from here in Austin Tx

I cant speak for the rest of the guys.....but we have the cam.....let's make it happen!

By the way.....spent an entire summer riding around the US in a '70
Westfalia VW taking digital pics and writing about the cool folks my cousin my dog and myself met and posting daily to a website (now defunct) called virtualtravelers.com and funded the trip (27states 3 months) by selling advertising on the van.......i'm nutty enough to travel........peace.......ike

[vanilla ike]

ToneTripper......have you seen Mule Skinner Blues? The Suck Factor worked for that documentary......so something to think about. If you haven't seen it check it out

[c hack]

Great idea, TT. I think the best way to do this would be to go roadtrippin around the globe visiting various high-profile songfighters (or at least the most interesting ones), and get a lot of footage of SFL events and such and edit it down from there. Could be fun, but I wouldn't expect there to be any money in it.