07D9-05-0D (13th May 2009)

[jast]

DRC: hi, German division here. I'm leaving for what someone on IRC called a spiritual retreat for about six weeks, and it looks like I won't have an internet connection. That means, essentially, three things:

1) you won't get to read any new extremely witty and life-changing posts of mine;
2) I won't post any reviews (I've done so for every regular fight since I joined, but I really can't promise to keep it up while I'm gone);
3) I won't submit any songs (actually, realistically speaking, I'm so addicted to songmaking that I'll probably do one or two anyway, but no promises here, either).

In other words, you get to have all the fun without me.

QotD: what's the most pointless website ever?

[JonPorobil]

QotD: http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/

Or maybe Youtube.

[Ross]

Have a good time, Jan.

What does this mean about the irc?

[jast]

No change. I just won't be there.

[rone rivendale]

QotD: http://www.meatspin.com (NSFW)

[Teplin]

QotD: http://nur-ein.livejournal.com/

(I kid, I kid!)

[roymond]

Conservatives4Palin

[fluffy]

On a related note, http://hillaryis44.com/

I'm pretty sure she hasn't been 44 for a long time.

[Billy's Little Trip]

QotD: www.clusterfudge.com

Have fun, jast. If it's a spiritual retreat, please put in a good word for me. I'm not religious, but I like to cover all my bases.
....in fact, it doesn't matter what kind of retreat it is, put in a good word for me.

Thanks you,
BLT

[roymond]

If it's a spiritual retreat, please put in a good word for me. I'm not religious, but I like to cover all my bases.

Religion and spirituality have little to do with one another.

[HeuristicsInc]

Well, they can, but they don't have to. I think.

Good luck, Jan, go forth and be spiritual.

As for the question: I like this one: Hobbu. Although I'm pretty sure this is a cat of a friend of the Jazz Butcher. The song is catchy.
-bill

[Märk]

If it's a spiritual retreat, please put in a good word for me. I'm not religious, but I like to cover all my bases.

Religion and spirituality have little to do with one another.

While I mostly disagree with that statement, I can say that for me, personally, being an atheist does not preclude the possibility of a higher "god-like" power or life form. Our laws of physics are based only on our observations and what we can currently comprehend.

I'm pretty absolutely sure the whole Judeo-Christian thing is complete horseshit, though

[fluffy]

While I mostly disagree with that statement, I can say that for me, personally, being an atheist does not preclude the possibility of a higher "god-like" power or life form.

Uh, yes, that's exactly what "atheist" means. Maybe you mean "agnostic?"

To me, the highest power is the laws of physics. They are pretty damn awesome, and the universe is a pretty neat place as it is without needing to make up un-disprovable stories about it.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Ok, I'm officially agnostic. Thanks fluf. Agnosticism seem like a safe bet. Kind of like covering all the bases by not playing the game. Sweet!

[Märk]

'atheism' means 'without theism'. Plain and simple. I am not theistic. I'm not, however, closed-minded to the possibility of a higher power.
All atheists are agnostic (unenlightened or unknowing) but not all agnostics are atheists.

Hope that clears it up.

[edit] http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnost ... theism.htm

[fluffy]

'atheism' means 'without theism'. Plain and simple. I am not theistic. I'm not, however, closed-minded to the possibility of a higher power.
All atheists are agnostic (unenlightened or unknowing) but not all agnostics are atheists.

Without evidence of a higher power I have no reason to believe there is one. If there were evidence I'd have no reason to be an atheist.

I don't know everything there is, but I do know that there is no higher power within this universe, and anything outside of this universe is irrelevant. I'd say that makes me not agnostic.

If I'm wrong (and I'm not saying that I am), then whatever higher power is "out there" would not be so petty as to judge me based on not believing in its existence, what with everything about this universe being consistent with one in which there is no higher power. If this is a test (and again, I'm not saying that it is), it's a pretty retarded and unfair one.

[Märk]

Without evidence of a higher power I have no reason to believe there is one. If there were evidence I'd have no reason to be an atheist.

I agree, exactly, but in my case it goes the other way, too. I'm not talking about 'gods' in the traditional (theistic) view... I would say the odds of other intelligent life forming in this vast universe of ours is almost overwhelming. What if some other creatures started out billions of years before we did, and have such an intimate knowledge of the so-called 'laws of physics' that we would regard them as gods? Think of how much we learned in even the last 50 years; imagine a billion years from now (if we survive that long). Perhaps light speed travel, etc will be as simple and intuitive as driving a car is for us now. 200 years ago, you'd be laughed at for suggesting that one day, a self-contained metal box would speed us along asphalt roadways. Then again, maybe we never will advance to that level, and maybe no other life forms have either, and maybe we're alone in the universe. In this regard I *am* agnostic, and also, an atheist.

[fluffy]

Nothing you described is at all "a higher power," and is more "a highly-advanced species which is also an inhabitant of this universe and beholden to the same laws of physics."

I believe that the universe is rich with life, we just haven't had the ability to discover or recognize it yet. It would be the height of arrogance, not to mention extremely lonely, to believe we were truly alone.

FTL travel is theoretically possible, although the only compelling theories so far have the tiny problem of requiring as much energy as the universe itself contains to achieve it, and not providing any way to actually survive the process anyway.

That said, even without FTL, it's still quite possible to colonize a large portion of the galaxy in a (relatively) short period of time, after solving the issues of how to make self-sustaining colony ships which can last for thousands of years (or more), find planets to colonize to begin with, etc. In my imagination, at some point in the future we'll learn how to mine raw materials from the sun and Jupiter and the like and use those to build a gigantic fleet and spread our seed everywhere, and maybe along the way we'll meet some friends. Our local neighborhood in the galaxy is AMAZINGLY rich and we have only begun to learn what sorts of things are out there besides the stars. The fact we know about so many extrasolar planets now is downright amazing, especially since our methods of detecting them are so primitive.

As far as detecting other civilizations goes, all we know how to do for now is scan for the same types of EM emissions that we've been making over the past 100 years, and even in that 100 years the nature of our own signals has changed vastly and we're even on the verge of no longer making them ourselves (as of this June, we won't be broadcasting easily-decoded video signals, for example, and while AM/FM radio are probably going to stick around for a while longer, shortwave is really what would be best for this and who uses shortwave anymore?).

The chances of two civilizations using the same "leaky" technologies at the relativistically-same time periods is infinitesimally tiny. It's still non-zero and worthwhile, though.

[Reist]

I don't know everything there is, but I do know that there is no higher power within this universe

What do you mean by higher power? I've always been a bit of an astronomy buff, and when I see how infinitely vast the universe is in comparison to our insignificant galaxy and main sequence star/sun, I have no doubt that there is something more powerful than humanity out there. Not necessarily a god, but something greater than us - and that's kind of how I understand the term "higher power".

EDIT: haha, you responded and answered the question already - I guess you guys know where I stand anyway then.

[fluffy]

I'm using "higher power" to mean something 'higher' than the universe itself, external to it and looking in and somehow influencing it. The metaphorical curator of the fishbowl, so to speak.

That is completely different than the Dragonball Z "HIS POWER LEVEL IS TEN KAJILLION AND THAT NUMBER IS HIGHER THAN YOURS" sense.

[Caravan Ray]

All atheists are agnostic (unenlightened or unknowing) but not all agnostics are atheists.

No, that is not correct.

Fluffy wrote:
Without evidence of a higher power I have no reason to believe there is one. If there were evidence I'd have no reason to be an atheist. I don't know everything there is, but I do know that there is no higher power within this universe, and anything outside of this universe is irrelevant. I'd say that makes me not agnostic.
He is right. He is athiest, No agnostic. He believes there is no higher power, because he has no reason to believe that there is a higher power, which is a perfect reasonable. Or to quote myself from my song "Adonai":

Now should you not subscribe to the anthropomorphic notion of a divine deity
Well humanist atheism is a reasonable position and that's OK by me

Personally, I am agnostic. I believe that the existence of a higher power is unknowable, in roughly the same way that Heiseneberg described that certain physical quantities are unknowable. An omnipotent, onmiscient, omnipresent being would be impossible describe as a physical quantity. But that doesn't mean she isn't there.

Hope that clears it up.

[edit] http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnost ... theism.htm

No - it doesn't.

Listen to my songs:
"Adonai", and
"Waiting Takes Time"

I think they explain it better. And you can dance to them.

[Teplin]

I don't know everything there is, but I do know that there is no higher power within this universe, and anything outside of this universe is irrelevant. I'd say that makes me not agnostic

Now there's a head scratcher. How can you possibly know that there is no higher power in the universe without knowing everything there is?

I fit the definition of a "strong" agnostic. I believe that the existence of a higher power is one of the many things that are unknowable.