pumping up the presence

[AJOwens]

What's the best way to go about this?

Right now I record each part as close as I can get to 0.0dB, then mix all the parts back so that the mixed level is just under 0.0dB (adjusting the parts for other factors too, of course). If I add any compression to the individual tracks, it's generally to correct for uneven recording levels, or to add thickness. Then I run the mixed WAV from Reaper through a Goldwave effect called "Amplify Lite" which adds compression to the whole, just to get the final apparent level up with most of the other entries in Songfight.

Many other songs here have a lot more presence. Any secrets you can give away?

[signboy]

One of the gems I've picked up (but never use, for some reason) is parallel compression. Once you have your track mixed down, make a copy on another track, and squash the hell out of it. your original mix gives you the dynamics of snare hits & such, while the squashed one brings up the average perceived loudness.

[Lunkhead]

If by "other songs here have a lot more presence" you mean they have a lot more apparent loudness, maybe you need to find a "maximizer" plugin for your final mix? A maximizer will basically give you a knob that lets you dial up the apparent loudness. I think it uses compression and limiting.

[roymond]

Since the noise floor in digital recording is so low, don't worry about "recording as close as I can get to 0.0db". In fact, where in analog a little over saturation brings warmth, if you hit 0 or higher you'll get digital distortion. Stay comfortably below 0.0db and you'll find you're turning tracks down less on playback as well.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Goldwave has a volume maximizer. After I do a final mix with a mix down compressor on the master, I run the mixed down .wav through Goldwaves volume maximizer and use 8.0 over which is something like 151% boost. Yes, it compresses the peaks down or expands the lower parts, not sure. But it gives a good overall mix in my opinion. Listen to any of my music I've done in the past couple years if that's what you're looking for.

[AJOwens]

Thanks for the suggestions about using a maximizer.

I've found that Goldwave (I have an older version, 4.26) has at least three ways to boost the volume, all under the Effects menu. First there's Dynamics, where I can use the presets Amplify Lite or Amplify. From the way this is set up, it looks like a graphical control for compression and expansion. I usually use Amplify Lite. I can get more boost with Amplify, but I think I can hear some distortion. There's no clipping, so it must be another type of distortion. There's another setting, Blare, which unquestionably does introduce audible distortion.

Then there's Expand/Compress. It took me a while to figure out the controls here, but basically, if I set to to Expansion with a ratio above 100 (say, 175), a high threshold (say, 0.8 ), and a high smoothness (100), I can get an amplifying effect on the track. But in detail it's like a reverse noise gate: quiet sounds are noticeably louder. (Probably if I lowered the smoothness I would trade that off for harmonic distortion, but I haven't explored it.) Also this can introduce some clipping in the visible waveform, though I don't noice anything audible.

Then there's Volume > Maximize, which Fluffy mentions. Maybe in v4.26 I'm seeing different controls, but here I can adjust either the normalized volume, or the RMS. Because my recording level is already so close to 0 dB, normalizing doesn't have much effect. (I do use this before applying Amplify Lite if the recording didn't push the levels close to the red.) I'd never tried the RMS control, but after Fluffy's suggestion I looked into it. Bumping the RMS, say to twice the reported level, does amplify the track, but it can introduce some clipping in the visible waveform, again, with no audible distortion that I can detect.

I am now trying to compare Amplify and the Maximize RMS method for sound quality, but this will take some time.

Roymond: Good point about the noise floor! I was packing the levels on old-school instinct, with some annoyance because digital clipping is so unforgiving. This could save me considerable time, so thanks for that.

Signboy: That sounds like a good way to get the life back into a compressed track. I may just check it out one day.

I guess what I was really wondering is whether it makes any difference to compress individual tracks, instead of compressing the final mix.

[BBABM]

I compress my tracks individually... But I also have no idea what I'm doing

[Lunkhead]

Compressing the individual tracks is a good idea, if those tracks have audio content that has a very high dynamic range (that is, the difference between the loudest sounds and quietest sounds) like vocals usually do. It will help you get a better mix more easily. Don't overdo it and squash everything, though, unless you're doing that deliberately as an "effect".

I don't really think you would want to use "compression" per se on your final mix, if you want it to be louder. The maximizer will handle using compression along with a gain boost and limiting in order to achieve what you want. It's probably not worth it to try to figure out yourself the right combination of those things to replicate what the maximizer is doing.

You should probably read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

[AJOwens]

Excellent link!

Where can I get a maximizer that goes to 11?

[JonPorobil]

Compressing the individual tracks is a good idea, if those tracks have audio content that has a very high dynamic range (that is, the difference between the loudest sounds and quietest sounds) like vocals usually do. It will help you get a better mix more easily. Don't overdo it and squash everything, though, unless you're doing that deliberately as an "effect".

I don't really think you would want to use "compression" per se on your final mix, if you want it to be louder. The maximizer will handle using compression along with a gain boost and limiting in order to achieve what you want. It's probably not worth it to try to figure out yourself the right combination of those things to replicate what the maximizer is doing.

You should probably read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

The loudness war is probably the relevant link here. James, if you're concerned about the provenience of your tracks in relation to one another, these tips will prove very helpful. If you're concerned with the loudness of your songs in relationship to other music in your playlist, I would recommend simply de-prioritizing that aspect of mixing. You might have some luck with maximizers, professional mastering software, hard limiters, etc., but the dynamics loss is generally not worth it just to make it as loud as radio cuts. Let your listeners turn you up if they like their music loud.

Relevant:

[jast]

I don't do a lot of "maximizing" at all. Most of the time, the stuff that drives the overall level above 0 dB is all transients (very short peaks). I don't mind clipping in many of those, so I have come to simply ignore any clipping that doesn't bother me.
I occasionally use Jeroen Breebart's Barricade (a brickwall limiter VST plugin) to increase overall levels. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be free any longer. Sometimes I also use the JS plugin LOSER/ZeroCrossingMaximizer. It features an interesting approach to limiting.

[AJOwens]

It's true, a few milliseconds of clipping doesn't seem to be detectable by ear. There has to be a good contiguous chunk of it before I notice. Still, I prefer to err on the side of caution and stay out of the red.

That's a great video on the Loudness War. The demonstration is excellent.

<rant> Unfortunately, when erudition and good taste are at odds with thoughtless gratification, thoughtless gratification always wins the popular vote. I won't even say "almost always." If, as the ad campaign said, "Mikey likes it," then what more is there to know?

The same thoughtlessness pervades politics, cuisine, TV, and any other aspect of popular culture you care to name. Again, no "almost." It would be wonderful if people made more educated choices, but you know what they say about leading a horse to water. It's a race to the bottom, here at Songfight as anywhere. Some dude throws up a track that makes your ears bleed, and suddenly the next track that comes along seems wimpy.

In my case, I won't use "Amplify" because it adds subtle distortion. But I will use "Amplify Lite," even at the expense of dynamic range, because the trade-off between the subtle pleasure of dynamic range and the more immediate pleasure of a punchy track is lost on anyone who isn't actively thinking about the question. Besides, I'm not sure dynamic range is even a significant element in music any more. It's not like classical, where you get passages so quiet you can hear a pin drop. In a contemporary concert -- even a folk concert -- if an instrument isn't above speaking volume, out comes the amplifier.</rant>

[Billy's Little Trip]

Compressing the individual tracks is a good idea, if those tracks have audio content that has a very high dynamic range (that is, the difference between the loudest sounds and quietest sounds) like vocals usually do. It will help you get a better mix more easily. Don't overdo it and squash everything, though, unless you're doing that deliberately as an "effect".

I don't really think you would want to use "compression" per se on your final mix, if you want it to be louder. The maximizer will handle using compression along with a gain boost and limiting in order to achieve what you want. It's probably not worth it to try to figure out yourself the right combination of those things to replicate what the maximizer is doing.

You should probably read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

I always use a compressor, gate and limiter on my vocal tracks. But starting around last years Nur Ein, I started using compression and a limiter on my bass tacks. Not sure if it's because I play bass with a pick, but it always has the highest peaks. Compression and limiting seems to make it fit the over all mix better and sound better in the final mix because it brings the highs in better with the lows. I like to hear the strings on the bass a little.

Also, the method I've made my normal mixing method started because of an older slower computer processor and my CPU was getting overloaded with tracks and VST plugs. But even though I have a fast computer now for my DAW, I stuck with my old method because after trying other ways to mix, I found my old method sounds best for my style.
Quite simply, I mix down my music tracks with the needed VST plugs on the tracks, with a mix down compression (Kjaerhus Classic Compressor) and multi band EQ (Gmulti) on the master mostly just to widen the mids and highs.

Then I start a new project for the vocal tracks. Track 1 is the mixed down stereo music tracks. Then I do the vocal tracks with compression, gate and limiter, as well as other vocal FX in my chain. This mix down has nothing on the master. Quite often I will add an un-compressed/non processed snare or kick track with the vocal tracks and bring them up under the compressed instrumental track if it's lacking snap and thump, etc.

Truth is, I like how the final mix sounds at this point. The only reason I maximize the volume in Goldwave is to bring it up to the level of the rest of the songs entered. But I do keep a non maximized version in case I want to use it for a CD later.
There you have it, in a nutshell.

[HeuristicsInc]

I compress the vocals using the plugin that comes with Acid.
Then for my final mix and master, I use the plugin Izotope Ozone. It makes mastering easy! All I usually have to do is modify the EQ curve to fit the current song.
-bill

[Billy's Little Trip]

I've used Izotope Ozone to tr their mastering pre-sets. I wasn't too impressed, but then again I may not have given it a proper test. Dre just recently told me he used it for mastering and loves it. Of course, he was using the latest version, so I should give it another try. Although I feel I finish my songs with pretty good quality. I'd need things pointed out to me that should be different, because to my ears, it's not bad....not perfect due to time spent, but not bad.

[Manhattan Glutton]

I made a Reaper mastering chain I've been trying to get used to. I learned "the mastering chain" from the real studio we recorded our album in.

1. EQ (ReaFir)
2. Compressor (ReaComp)
3. Multiband Compressor (ReaXComp)
4. De-Ess
5. Aural Exciter
6. Limiter

Basically you up the compressor until you notice artifacts, then back it down. So you get as loud as possible.
The exciter is to add back in the frequencies you lost from compressing.

And something something something. I always make things over 0db in reaper so I add a volume FX before the rest in the chain. I add Spectro/reafir for spectral spot-check at the end. I'm not very good at this whole process YET.

One thing to note is that this is all fine and dandy for one-off songs, but if you want to master an album you should render without FX on your master track and then create a NEW reaper project to put all your rendered tracks in so you can compare the masterings as they go.

EDIT: From what I recall of your songs, they seem a little washy and warm. Search reaper's FX for 'exciter' - there are at least 2 built-in aural exciters - although they aren't pretty, they will get the job done.

What an aural exciter does, is it enhances a frequency range. IIRC, it does this by pulling up harmonies somehow. I guess it all depends on the algorithm.

EDIT2: I just noticed your response to my 3khz comment in the fight thread. Why yes, an exciter would be great to use on 3khz! I have a bit of a 3khz fetish.

[AJOwens]

. . .

EDIT: From what I recall of your songs, they seem a little washy and warm. Search reaper's FX for 'exciter' - there are at least 2 built-in aural exciters - although they aren't pretty, they will get the job done.
. . .

Thanks, I will definitely check it out. Maybe I'll even set up my track template with a mastering chain.

[Manhattan Glutton]

Since I'm still new to mastering within Reaper, I've been sticking to the ReaComp/ReaXComp defaults and then play the rest by ear. I actually haven't worked the de-esser in there yet and keep that on my vocal tracks independently.

[jb]

Don't screw with any of your softsynths. Just make them louder or softer in your mix using volume. Likewise don't mess with patches you piped in via your keyboard. They're done too.

Only screw with stuff you recorded using a microphone, and your bass. Always record your bass directly into your audio interface, and compress it a LOT. Otherwise it will make your mix max out and still not be loud and then NOTHING will be loud enough no matter what you do.

If you don't know what you're doing, compress your vocals using the presets on your compression plugin. Try one preset after another until you hear one you like.

Likewise in your "maximizer" plugin, which you should ONLY apply to your master mix. Use the presets and when you find what you feel like you might want to tweak, try to only turn things DOWN, not UP.

AND ABOVE ALL KEEP IN MIND: GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT

[AJOwens]

Thanks, jb.

I run my bass through a preamp before the audio interface, because the audio interface doesn't have a high-impedance guitar-level input, but I leave the preamp EQ flat. It's a pretty good preamp, a Sony 2000F. I find transistors are better for bass than guitar, for some reason: basses sound pure and rich, guitars sound wimpy. Tubes seem better for guitar. I'm trying out preamplying my guitar through a Bogen MX60A (just the preamp stage, obviously).

I don't compress the bass, but I see what you're saying, so I'll add that to the list of things to try for the next fight I enter.

I do tend to stick with presets, just because I don't know what I'm doing (as seen in my tracks). I gather the quality of plugins varies, and I'm not hearing any raves about the Reaper plugins, but they's what I got.

Thanks for the advice about where to apply the maximizer too. That was one of my main concerns.

Lots of things to check out!

[AJOwens]

Don't screw with any of your softsynths. . .

Funny you should mention that. My best-sounding tracks are always the synth-based ones. The sounds that come out of Reason Adapted seem fine just the way they are.

[Manhattan Glutton]

Sometimes I use a maximizer or zero crossing maximizer on vocals or drums instead of compression. I think it sounds good. There's a ZeroCrossing maximizer with reaper - basically it preserves the peaks instead of flattening them (compression) or clipping them.